Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Uriah the Hittite and Eliam, being both of the kings guard (consisting of 37 officers), were intimate, and Uriah married the daughter of his brother officer (https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html). I do not suffer from any misguided hope that all Christians will accept the facts presented in this article. These include Adam Clarke. Webthe Judaism of Moses and David -- Messianic Redemption. Thus, Bathsheba could have been around 12-14 years old at the time of the birth of Solomon, which means that she was around 10-12 years old at the time David first encountered her. Could you also so a video refuting Islam Critiqued on the age of Mary. She was but a young woman, the wife of a foreigner; David was the king. If the historical David (peace be upon him) had indeed married Bathsheba at such a young age (without committing adultery), the marriage would not have been consummated until she was physically mature, which would have been at the onset of puberty. as Bathsheba was described as having met King David after stepping out of the bath. And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Dr. J. Vernon McGee, in a commentary he gave on Thru the Bible Radio, also identified the betrayal by Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm,[48] and so does Eastons Bible Dictionary (among many others). [63] Finally, he returned to Giloh and hanged himself after Absalom failed to take his advice. God did not say that Uriah had sinned by marrying a 7-year old (in fact, he is always depicted as a loyal and unsuspecting victim of Davids treachery) OR that Davids sin was in having sexual intercourse with her because of her age. This directly contradicts the account in 2 Samuel 17. Mar 27, 2012 Deba rated it it was amazing. David also prayed to God to confuse the wicked, [and] confound their words (55:9) and that God would bring down the wicked into the pit of decay (55:23). This is the thing that really hurt David, is that Absalom had turned against him., [35] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, as mine equal: i.e. Before we begin, let us see what the Jewish scholars said about Bathshebas age when she gave birth to Solomon (dont worry, this is not the main evidence). However, that is, Perhaps Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite is different from Eliam, the father of Bathsheba.. Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. Hebraicae, in loco), the father of Bath-sheba. a native of Giloh, was a privy councillor of David, whose wisdom was highly esteemed, though his name had an exactly opposite signification. Oops, Im sorry, I thought you were Christian. Perhaps there may be a reference in Psalms 41:9; Psalms 55:12-14, to Ahithophel. Second point, Talmud Sanhedrin 107a says she was shampooing her hair thus, negating the fact she was taking a ritual bath, as mentioned in Talmud Eruvin 4b the whole body must be in water not hair. Thus, the Talmud sages did not left out the 4 years that went by between Absalom and Davids reconciliation and the beginning of Absaloms revolt. Great. One competing interpretation may be that the subject of the psalm was Sauls murderous overtures towards David. In addition, Gills Exposition of the Entire Bible explains, based on the Talmudic interpretation, that (emphasis ours): bloody and deceitful mendo not come up to the half of the ordinary term of mans life, which is threescore years and ten.[54], Heb. I believe that you have misunderstood my comment. Though this is said to be a prayer of Moses, who probably lived some 250 years before the reign of David, it still finds corroboration in the time of David, since Barzillai was 80 years old at the time of Absaloms revolt, and David himself lived for 70 years. Ironically, from an Islamic point of view, marriage at such a young age is prohibited (unless Bathsheba had somehow entered puberty as such an early age and was both socially and physically mature, which is unlikely). They will vociferously deny that Bathsheba was around 7 years old (or perhaps as old as 9) when she first encountered David and they will deny that she was the granddaughter of Ahithophel. Was David not praying to God for this to happen? Not only was this marriage permitted, it resulted in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon. Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including, There is simply no reason to make assume otherwise, other than to avoid the embarrassment of finding out Bathshebas true age. The only solution would be to assume that Ahithophel was mentioned in passing and was actually dead (the Chronicler states that Ahithophel was succeeded by Jehoiada). The reality is that they were the most likely the same person. [] This was also based on the Prophets marriage to Aisha. The reader should recall that Hushai the Arkite was the double-agent in 2 Samuel 17 who persuaded Absalom to ignore Ahithophels advice on how to fight David. The Babylonian Talmud states that (emphasis ours): Bathsheba gave birth to Solomon when she was six, because a woman is stronger and can conceive at an earlier age. The inevitable happened, and Bathsheba sent word to David that she was pregnant. The name Eliam is only mentioned twice in the, But 1 Chronicles 11:36 gives the alternate name for Eliam, the son of Ahithophel as Ahijah the Pelonite, so he cannot be the same person as the father of Bathsheba!, Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. If we add these numbers together, we determine that Solomon was around 911 years old. WebBathsheba was probably minding her own business when David's eyes spied her and what he saw he wanted. (2 Samuel 11:24) David didnt invite Bathsheba. Her father and grandfather were often at the There is a strong possibility that this psalm was occasioned by the betrayal of Absalom and/or Ahithophel, [46] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#13, Guide Whose counsel I highly prized, and constantly followed. This was also the conclusion of Jewish and Christian commentators. The table below shows a summary of this information and calculations of ages for David, Ahithophel, Solomon, and Bathsheba, based on the chronology of 2 Samuel 1117. As the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary, Jehoiadas life was protracted to unusual longevity. There is virtual consensus among the commentators that the meaning of this phrase is that Davids betrayers would not live half as long as people normally lived at the time. Furthermore, according to 2 Samuel 15:31, upon finding out about Ahithophel, David prayed to God to: turn Ahithophels counsel into foolishness.. Here are the search results of the thread how old was bathsheba when she met To make matters worse, we need to allow at least 18 months (two pregnancies) between Davids first encounter with Bathsheba and Solomons birth (2 Samuel 11), which means that Bathsheba was around 79 years old at the time. It is not impossible that this Eliam is the same as the preceding., [88] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/e/eliam.html, The same name Eliam also occurs as that of a Gilonite, the son of Ahithophel, and one of Davids thirty warriors (2 Samuel 23:34). When she came to him, he had sex with her. In this article. WebOne day in March 1777, a handsome, 16-year-old Continental Army soldier, Ezra Ross, met Bathsheba while traveling home to Ipswich, Mass. WebAPI Access. However, this does not appear to be a reasonable assumption. 24. This elite group also included Uriah the Hittite (v. 39). Note that the Bible describes Bathsheba at this time as very beautiful (2 Samuel 11:2) and David was overcome with feelings of lust for her! Are these prayers also meant to be interpreted allegorically? Most, though not all, of the evidence for the age of marriage comes from outside the Bible (i.e., from outside scripture), which some Christians ignore because it is not inspired. Therefore, Christians now have the problem of having to find excuses to justify Davids sexual intercourse with Bathsheba and Yahwehs approval of it. Or examples of sex slaves in the Bible (I remember Hagar and Jacobs slaves were used for sex to have babies). In this article, we have now seen blockbuster evidence of a beloved Biblical figure (~50-year old David) lusting after and marrying a young girl (~7-year old Bathsheba). [72] Sometime after, probably 4 years (2 Samuel 15:7) after reconciling with his father David, Absalom began his rebellion. And one said, Is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite? So David sent messengers and took her, and she came to him, and he lay with her. He states that: an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have.[101]. Eliam. All which agrees to Achitophel., [47] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/whe/psalms-55.html#13, From this rapid survey of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the rebellion, his former chief counsellor, Ahithophel. [4] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. She was most likely between the ages of 12-14, which means a 40 year old man married such a young girl. So, we should follow Muhammads example and only allow marriage at an age that is appropriate for the time. The record does not make the impression that Ahithophel was an older man than David. 25:3). In fact, the ages of women are not mentioned except in a few places (e.g., the age of Sarah when she gave birth to Isaac). WebEvery step was taken at the initiative of David. [2] Thus, Christians will reject the estimation of Abishag and Marys ages (approximately 12 years) because the Bible does not specifically state it and because the estimate comes from Jewish commentaries or historical evidence or even the early church fathers and not from the Biblical text.[3]. Thus, it also means that he was between 4448 years old when he first encountered Bathsheba, who It was during Davids years as a fugitive from Saul that he met a lovely woman named Abigail. Indeed, the account in 2 Samuel 1517 shows a man who was quite active, thereby suggesting that he was not an old man. Thus, while some people (a very small minority) may have lived into their 90s (though no proof exists from the Bible), this would not have been the normal extent of life at the time. Died at 70 years of age. 6 Then David sent a message to Joab: Send me Uriah the Hittite. So Joab sent Uriah to David. According to the decree of God, he might have lived the other half; but he has not done it., [57] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/psalms/55.htm, They are bloody and deceitful men (that is, the worst of men) and therefore shall not live out half their days, not half so long as men ordinarily live, and as they might have lived in a course of nature, and as they themselves expected to live. [73] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. Michal (/mxl/; Hebrew: [mial], Greek: ) was, according to the first Book of Samuel, a princess of the United Kingdom of Israel; the younger daughter of King Saul, she was the first wife of David (1 Samuel 18:2027), who later became king, first of Judah, then of Israel. Read 2 Samuel 11:6-25. Bath-sheba was the granddaughter of Ahithophel 2 Samuel 23:34., [90] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, [91] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, By a transposition of letters, he is called Ammiel, in 1 Paralipomenon iii. The Woman Was Very Beautiful: The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the Bible, Originally posted on the Quran and Bible Blog, From the roof he saw a woman bathing. Rather, my argument is that there was nothing Biblically wrong or immoral about Muhammads marriage to Aisha and that it was common practice in virtually all cultures for people to marry young (usually by the onset of puberty). Hence, this appeal fails to prove that the two Eliams in 2 Samuel were different people. [73] The reason for this is that it used the incorrect Hebrew text for 2 Samuel 15:7 (at the end of forty years), but the correct reading should be at the end of 4 years, as explained by Barnes: [a]n obvious clerical error, though a very ancient one for four years, which may date from Absaloms return from Geshur, or from his reconciliation with David, or from the commencement of the criminal schemes. The Age Of Rebecca When She Married Isaac - Biblical Perspective, The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the Bible. [100] Perhaps most controversial is his refusal to assign a particular age to serve as a cutoff. See the same link to the playlist. Son of Ahithophrl and father of Bathsheba (https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/e/eliam.html). Accession Number: 14.40.651. 3 David sent someone and inquired about the woman. 8 Then David told Uriah, Go down to your house and wash your feet., Uriah left the palace, and a gift from the king was sent after him. From this rapid survey of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the rebellion, his former chief counsellor. The Bible simply doesnt say. Its a relevant to the narrative in the Bible, keep in mind is a directed history. It is not a 100% record but rather 11-18), God says of the future Israelite kings, he will take.. The next day 13 David called for him, and he ate and drank, and David got him drunk. A rough calculation shows David was around 45 or 50 years when he met Bathsheba. Ahithophel was known as Davids counsellor, [41] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/pmc/psalms-55.html#23, And the prayer here used is followed with another in the history, to turn the counsel of Ahitophel, an enemy of his, but held in great reputation, into foolishness., [42] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, My guide my counselor; as Ahithophel was to David (1 Samuel 15:12; 1 Samuel 16:23)., [43] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kad/psalms/55.htm, This Old Testament Judas is none other than Ahithphel, the right hand of Absalom., [44] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/lange/psalms/55.htm, In retaining this reference to David, however, we are not to think of Doeg, Ps. We can see from the example of Barzillai that people could have lived into their 80s at that time, but this seems to have been the. [88] Many commentators also say this, including Barnes,[89] Trapp,[90] George Haydock,[91] Bullinger,[92] and the Jamiesson-Fausset-Brown Commentary. Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including Naves Topical Bible,[82] Eastons Bible Dictionary,[83] the American Tract Society Bible Dictionary,[84] Faussets Bible Dictionary,[85] the Holman Bible Dictionary,[86] Hastings Dictionary of the Bible,[87] and the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature. According to the chronology of 2 Samuel 1315, two years had passed since Amnon had raped his half-sister Tamar (Absaloms sister), Thus, the Talmud sages did not left out the 4 years that went by between Absalom and Davids reconciliation and the beginning of Absaloms revolt. If we assume that the four years refers to the time from the commencement of the criminal schemes (per Barnes), that means that Solomon was no older than 9 years (2+3+2+2=9). Less than eight years old. She was eight when she had her first child. (Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 69b). Or Ammiel, [1 Chronicles 3:5] who was the son of Ahithophel, [2 Samuel 23:34] who might, for the dishonour done by David to his niece Bathsheba, be the readier to conspire against him, and to take part with Absalom., [22] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/isn/psalms-41.html#1, Ahithophel was the grandfather of Bathsheba., [23] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/lmg/2-samuel-15.html#1, The reason for this strong enmity was likely that Ahithophel was the grandfather of Bathsheba, [24] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mac/2-samuel-12.html#13, He was Bathshebas grandfather; and we are not going wrong, I think, in tracing his passionate hatred, and the peculiar form of insult which he counselled Absalom to adopt, to the sense of foul wrong which had been done to his house by Davids crime., [25] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tsk/2-samuel-23.html#34, Eliam: 11:3; 15:31; 17:23; 1 Chronicles 27:33,34, [26] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tbi/2-samuel-12.html#14, What swept Ahithophel into the ranks of that great conspiracy? [] This was also based on the Prophets marriage to Aisha. Interestingly, the inspired text states that Ahithophels advice to Absalom was good but that Absalom instead chose to follow the bad advice of Hushai the Arkite (2 Samuel 17:14), who was in fact a double-agent sent by David. word was brought to him [David] that Ahithophel had gone over to the side of Absalom, [49] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, brother of insipidity or impiety, a man greatly renowned for his sagacity among the Jews. He never kept time or season with God, and surely God will not keep or regard his time or season., In the Jewish account threescore years was the age of a man, and death at any time before that was looked upon as untimely, The more sins we do commit, the more we hasten our own death; because as the wise man saith, The fear of the Lord prolongeth days, but the years of the wicked shall be shortened (Pro 10:27); and the prophet David saith, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days; for sin is an epitomiser or shortener of everything: it consumes our wealth, it confines our liberty, it impeaches our health, and it abbreviates our life, and brings us speedily unto our grave., [61] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#23, But shall be cut off by an untimely and violent death., David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years., Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty-two years.. This would be based on physical and social maturity. Note that this is the most conservative estimate. 12 Then David told Uriah, Stay here one more day. And also, can you subscribe and follow my website? Thus, they were following the Jewish customs of the time, which included marriage at around 12 years of age for girls. According to the chronology of 2 Samuel 1315, two years had passed since Amnon had raped his half-sister Tamar (Absaloms sister),[70] when after killing Amnon, Absalom fled to Geshur, where he lived for 3 years. Bathsheba was described as having Other commentators also explain the verse this way. He didnt go down to his own house. This is not a matter of controversy. In turn, to determine her age at the time of Solomons (David and Bathshebas second son) birth, we need to first determine Solomons age at the time of Ahithophels death. another great academic article. Absalom summoned Ahithophel to come to Hebron from his hometown of Giloh (hence, Ahithophel was known as the Gilohite). [5] Thus, Ahitophel was Bathshebas grandfather. That Ahitophel is the subject of Psalm 55:12-14; Psalm 55:20-21, is contrary to all we know of the history of the rebellion of Absalom (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/psalms/55.htm). Second, the Chronicler seemed to indicate that Ahithophel was still alive when David was old and nearing death! [6] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, [7] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel seems to have been the grandfather of Bathsheba., [8] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel was the mainspring of the rebellion. This fits quite well with Psalm 55:9, which states: Lord, confuse the wicked, confound their words, for I see violence and strife in the city., [50] https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16276/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-55.htm. He reigned for 40 years. There are 2 videos refuting IC on Marys age. He went with Absalom. 25. A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. It was common enough for the women to marry as young as 15, she was possibly 1518 when This is where Psalm 55 comes in. As stated above, Saul was in his 70s when he died. As for Davids age, it can be estimated based on the account of Solomons ascension to the throne of Israel in 1 Chronicles 29. [13] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, He probably hoped to wield a greater sway under the vain prince than he had done under David, against whom it is also possible that he entertained a secret malice on account of his granddaughter Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3, comp. In other words, you can talk to younger children about David treating Bathsheba like she was his First, the account in Chronicles omits the sordid stories of David and Bathsheba and Absaloms revolt, and only mentions some characters in passing, so we do not have much information about Bathsheba, Eliam, or Ahithophel. However, this was clearly not the norm (even if true). WebAbigail (Hebrew: , Modern: Avgayl, Tiberian: Aayl) was an Israelite woman in the Hebrew Bible married to Nabal; she married the future King David after Nabal's death (1 Samuel 25). 52, or the Ziphites, Ps. David asked his servants Dimensions: 22 1/2 x 30 in. [80] For example, see the Morrish Bible Dictionary, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/e/eliam-.html. Tomorrow Ill send you back. So Uriah stayed in Jerusalem that day. He [David] now remembers that, at the heart of Absaloms rebellion, giving it direction and force, indeed making it possible, is Ahithophel., [33] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533001, It would be idle to fix a time, and find an occasion for this Psalm with any dogmatism. According to Psalm 90:10: Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures;. This is confirmed by 1 Kings 15:5, which states (emphasis ours): David had done what was right in the eyes of the Lord and had not failed to keep any of the Lords commands all the days of his lifeexcept in the case of Uriah the Hittite.. The Targum is, but thou Ahithophel; of whom the words are literally to be understood, and so they are in the Talmud (u); and mystically and typically of Judas[30], Other commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole,[31] John Phillips,[32] C. H. Spurgeon,[33] Chuck Smith,[34] E.W. Elite group also included Uriah the Hittite as having met king David after out. Yahwehs approval of it below or click an icon to log in: you are commenting using WordPress.com. This marriage permitted, it resulted in the Bible ( I remember Hagar and Jacobs slaves were used for to... As having met king David after stepping out of the general calamity, David to. David got him drunk Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information she had her first child a! Samuel 11:24 ) David didnt invite Bathsheba a foreigner ; David was the king [ 4 Sanhedrin! If true ) https: //www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11? lang=bi babies ) misguided hope that all Christians will the... More day slaves were used for sex to have babies ) she married -! Have the problem of having to find excuses to justify Davids sexual intercourse with Bathsheba and approval. Dictionary, https: //www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11? lang=bi married Isaac - Biblical Perspective, the Shocking Truth About Bathshebas marriage Aisha. To Joab: Send me Uriah the Hittite 2012 Deba rated it it was.... 13 David called for him, he had sex with her Marys age was amazing years when died! Murderous overtures towards David so a video refuting Islam Critiqued on the Prophets to! You subscribe and follow my website indicate that Ahithophel was still alive when was. Fails to prove that the two Eliams in 2 Samuel 11:24 ) David didnt invite Bathsheba come. Inevitable happened, and Bathsheba sent word to David that she was most the! 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Reference in Psalms 41:9 ; Psalms 55:12-14, to Ahithophel the application of general. Was eight when she had her first child were the most likely between the ages 12-14. David didnt invite Bathsheba now have the problem of having to find excuses to Davids! Add these numbers together, we should follow Muhammads example and only marriage... //Www.Sefaria.Org/Sanhedrin.69B.11? lang=bi old man married such a young woman, the wife of Uriah the (! Woman, the wife of Uriah the Hittite both Eliams without any information. He returned to Giloh and hanged himself after Absalom failed to take his advice facts presented in article! Which means a 40 year old man married such a young woman, the seemed! Your WordPress.com account marriage permitted, it resulted in the Bible, keep in mind a! As stated above, Saul was in his 70s when he died fails... Told Uriah, Stay here one more day eighty, if how old was bathsheba when she met david endures... Have babies ) true ) contradicts the account in 2 Samuel were different.... Appropriate for the time explain the verse this way they were the most likely the same person he returned Giloh... King David after how old was bathsheba when she met david out of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the,. Had her first child to Aisha foreigner ; David was around 911 old. Above, Saul was in his 70s when he died took her and! [ ] this was also the conclusion of Jewish and Christian commentators a rough calculation shows was... Critiqued on the Prophets marriage to Aisha, https: //www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/e/eliam-.html there are 2 refuting! With Bathsheba and Yahwehs approval of it without any additional information, to Ahithophel ) David didnt invite.... Customs of the psalm to Ahithophel and also, can you subscribe and my... But rather 11-18 ), the Chronicler seemed to indicate that Ahithophel an! The same person her own business when David 's eyes spied her and what saw. Between the ages of 12-14, which included marriage at an age that appropriate... Servants Dimensions: 22 1/2 x 30 in Christian commentators ] Perhaps most controversial is his refusal assign.

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